MEaholic
Game Owner
 Mass Effect
Joined: 16 Jan 2009 |
 Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 04:31AM |
just came across this. you might enjoy it.
Click Here |
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javierabegazo
Game Owner
 Mass Effect
Joined: 06 Aug 2009 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 04:43AM |
Hehe  Wow, that's pretty impressive, and really funny when details got to be pretty specific such as 4 locations to visit  I'd like to see Devs responses on this
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The actual Commander Shepard [  ] ,Colonial Sole Survivor as an Adept Bastion with Shotgun Talent |
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Les_Carver
Joined: 08 Apr 2009 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 05:06AM |
XD interesting indeed...
Some of them like the characters around you during the missions etc couldnt really fit into cliché because that has to do with the game mode, how the environments are build and the platform capabilities ... still, its a curious funny thing  nicely done
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 Mass Effect signatures and some random stuff over there. |
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MajesticMoose
Joined: 08 Nov 2009
From: standing in an Alaskan stream |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 05:16AM |
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Well they were pretty legitiment(sp?) but pretty general and one was like "An evil force is against you" which i wouldn't consider a cliche' since every story has a struggle and would be boring without one. |
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javierabegazo
Game Owner
Mass Effect
Joined: 06 Aug 2009 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 05:23AM |
Quote: Posted 11/09/09 05:16 (GMT) by MajesticMoose
Well they were pretty legitiment(sp?) but pretty general and one was like "An evil force is against you" which i wouldn't consider a cliche' since every story has a struggle and would be boring without one.
I agree, it's too broad. But the Final Fantasy series take the cake when it comes to RPG cliches for me Not that I dislike them mind you
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The actual Commander Shepard [ ] ,Colonial Sole Survivor as an Adept Bastion with Shotgun Talent |
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feliciano182
Game Owner
 Mass Effect
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 05:55AM |
Regardless, those cliches are ***ing awesome.
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Orgulloso Fanático Venezolano De Mass Effect |
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Patrick Weekes
Writer
Joined: 13 Apr 2005 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 05:58AM |
So I'm supposed to believe someone is smart enough to do a big Excel spreadsheet with color coding and stuff but not smart enough to know about Campbellian archetypes?
Yeah, guys, every BioWare game has the same plot! See, things are kind of normal, and then things change and you have to go out and do stuff, and you go to crazy weird places! Aaaaaand so yeah, totally the same story.
That's asinine.
The core idea isn't that bad -- I sense that someone started out with a good concept, like "Hey, you go to four places a lot," and then they just decided to add some more filler rows to try to make a real zinger, except that when you actually read the cells, a lot of them are stretches.
In any event, the "intro, four planets, finale" structure is something we have used often for a few simple reasons:
1) It's easy. It's not as easy as making the player do everything in order, but you can generally just treat each area separately except for a few variables, which makes logic-testing and QA work a ton easier. What happens on Feros stays on Feros. BioWare knows how to make these games, make them solid and workable, and ship them -- and if need be, we can always cut areas, which sucks, but we can do it if need be. Some structures don't allow for that, which is why you end up with games where it's clear that the devs ran out of time or money at some point.
2) Players can understand it. In usability tests on one project, we learned that players with more than four things to do at a time in any given area will feel frustrated -- they get overwhelmed and have no idea what to do first and get the names mixed up. So you don't dump twenty small planets on the player all at once. You hit them with a few big things that they can understand: "Go to Feros." And then once they're there, they unlock several different things to do that don't compete with the rest of the universe, because right now you're on Feros. "Kill Varren." "Get Power Cells." "Turn on Water Valves." "Go to ExoGeni." (And we even cheat a bit by giving you missions, which are big and obvious, and assignments, which we tell you are less important.)
In testing out our missions for ME2, the single biggest lump of story feedback we've gotten has boiled down to Information Flow. When a mission feels clunky, nine times out of ten it's because we either told the player way too much all at once and expected the player to keep it all straight, or we didn't actually tell the player enough and so the player is kind of lost. Dividing up our game into four or five large worlds allows us to control information a bit better.
(And to be clear, that four-worlds-and-out thing is a simplification that ignores major critpath events and makes it sound like you only visit four big areas in KotOR, which flat-out isn't true.)
3) There's nothing wrong with it. It's a structure, like any other. Humorously snarking that our games have a beginning part that is streamlined and introduces you to the game, a middle that allows you the freedom to go to several places and have adventures, and then a tightly focused ending is like riffing on how romance novels generally start out with two people being attracted to each other but having emotional issues, then gradually building trust, then having a complication that splits them up, and then in the end they get together and are happy. People who create fiction in any form use a structure appropriate to that form. They do it because their audience understands and responds on an emotional level to that structure.
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Evil? I prefer "differently ethical". |
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jkstexas2001
Game Owner
 NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 20 Mar 2009 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 06:12AM |
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Patrick, just admit you all are slaves to the collective unconscious. Take a deep breath. See, it's not that hard. Find your happy place. |
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StillGray
Game Owner
 SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 06:14AM |
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Oh relax, Patrick. It was done very tongue-in-cheek, and yes, I'm quite aware of the Hero with a Thousand Faces. |
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jkstexas2001
Game Owner
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 20 Mar 2009 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 06:16AM |
Quote: Posted 11/09/09 06:14 (GMT) by StillGray
Oh relax, Patrick. It was done very tongue-in-cheek, and yes, I'm quite aware of the Hero with a Thousand Faces.
Wasn't that a Twilight Zone episode? |
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jkstexas2001
Game Owner
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 20 Mar 2009 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 06:17AM |
Quote: Posted 11/09/09 05:55 (GMT) by feliciano182
Regardless, those cliches are ***ing awesome.
Cliches are a dime a dozen. |
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IccaRa
Game Owner
 NWN
Mass Effect
Joined: 02 May 2009
From: Thane's hat |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 06:26AM |
Quote: Posted 11/09/09 05:58 (GMT) by That Guy
See, things are kind of normal, and then things change and you have to go out and do stuff, and you go to crazy weird places!
Wherein the entire plot for Mass Effect 2 is massively spoiled.
Is nothing sacred any more?! 
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Quote: Posted 10/12/09 05:32 (GMT) by Stanley Woo
IccaRa is also fired. Out of a cannon. Into the sun.
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Guaritorr
Joined: 07 Nov 2009 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 06:36AM |
Crazy weird places confirmed in ME2!!!
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Saving the universe... 1 hug at a time. |
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QuantumSponge
Game Owner
 Mass Effect
Joined: 30 Mar 2008 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 06:37AM |
Well, there's a difference between a cliché and a trope.
Also, bear in mind that tropes are not evil.
(PS. My apologies to anyone who hasn't been previously exposed to TVtropes)
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This is my Shepard. There are many like her, but this one is mine. |
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Sleepicub09
Game Owner
 Mass Effect
Joined: 16 Jun 2009 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 06:37AM |
Quote: Posted 11/09/09 06:26 (GMT) by IccaRa Quote: Posted 11/09/09 05:58 (GMT) by That Guy
See, things are kind of normal, and then things change and you have to go out and do stuff, and you go to crazy weird places!
Wherein the entire plot for Mass Effect 2 is massively spoiled. Is nothing sacred any more?!
IccaRa you never cease to amaze me
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King Bumi(the last airbender)-Whats the point of being tested if you don't learn anything |
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] ,Colonial Sole Survivor as an Adept Bastion with Shotgun Talent
