Psyanide
Game Owner
 SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 |
 Posted: Sunday, 20 August 2006 09:26PM |
As many of you probably know, Microsoft recently announced it's PC/Xbox 360 release of the XNA toolkit, allowing people to create games for a fee (Although I think one version of the PC toolkit will be free). I, personally, am really excited about this, because while most of the games that come out of that will be utter crap, I think there will be some "Counter-Strike"-type games. Now, a mod team, for instance, could develop their own game for the Xbox 360, and not be limited by whatever game engine they're using (i.e. Source, Unreal, etc.).
However, this could also open up the door to more console mods. For example, if Bungie wanted to, they could allow people with the XNA tookit to create mods for Halo 3. Whether it be new campaign missions, multiplayer maps, weapons, or even a total conversion mod (i.e. Counter-Strike: 2552), console users could finally have the ability to do PC-level mods on console games.
Now, my question concerning Mass Effect is: do you think that Bioware could take advantage of this, allowing modders to create new worlds for us to explore, or new quests for us to accomplish? Note also that this could be introduced in Mass Effect 2, it wouldn't have to be ME1.
Thoughts?
Psyanide
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sportforredneck
Game Owner
 SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
From: Already Gone |
Posted: Sunday, 20 August 2006 09:33PM |
My thoughts are that modding is okay, sure it continues the gameplay and could be fun for awhile, but to me it's pointless. Sure maybe I want to look like an alien or play a special campaign, but I myself won't have anything to do with modding as I don't enjoy it. I prefer to play games where the story contributes to something, but modding doesn't, they just make up their own stories and do whatever they feel like. That's just not my cup of tea, but whatever you're into, you're into.
But if modding really wants to do anything, I think rather than anything single player, they should just make a giant multiplayer mod for Mass Effect. | |
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Xeronix
Game Owner
 SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
From: Toronto, Canada |
Posted: Sunday, 20 August 2006 11:23PM |
I think modding in games would be great. A great example to use is TES IV: Oblivion. In Oblivion the 360 owners kinda got the short end of the stick since PC gamers could mod the game to their heart's content. They could add various equipment that wasn't in the game such as capes, and create their own customized armour. The modding was also good for removing enemies that leveled with you. If you didn't like it you could just mod it out.
But there is a negative. The next step after modding is piracy and hacking, so Microsoft needs to be careful while treading this ground. | |
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Garen Arnulfsson
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 |
Posted: Monday, 21 August 2006 10:49AM |
From what I have read, the XNA toolkit will not allow for the creation of Mods for existing games. Instead it will be used to produce the kinds of game you find on Xbox Live Arcade.
Plus it's going to cost $99 a year for membership to their developers club and the ability to distribute this stuff over Xbox Live, making this very a very costly option to make a mod for a game. | |
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Gaviteros
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
From: Somwhere in Heaven. |
Posted: Monday, 21 August 2006 11:26PM |
Something I am a heavy proponent of ends up being: Modding of Existing 360 Games. I would love more than anything for all games to come with a toolset (no matter how complex) for me to work with and create content to my liking. Even if I can't figure out how to do anything with the toolset, just the item being there would extend the life of the game and really make it worth it's while.
Oblivion for example: I bought the Xbox360 version, played 400+ hours of the game then bought the PC version with the soul purpose of being able to create my own content. A game either has to give me that much time of playing that it be worth buying both, or come with a damn good construction set in the first place.
I would love a 360 built toolset... I would love even more if it didn't require the XNA build, but that being unlikely meh. Actually as our friend here stated, it isn't likely at all as Microsoft is against the idea and wants me to pay more money than my small budget can handle.
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I wanna xbox360 toolset for Mass Effect! Puh-lease??? | |
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MusicDan
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
From: LOC, The Garden Of England. |
Posted: Thursday, 24 August 2006 01:08PM |
Sorry to be mister negative but it wont happen with Mass Effect because BioWare don't own the game engine they/Microsoft have only licensed the technology from Epic (and an Unreal 3 development kit licence costs a lot of money), plus I imagine the development tools for it are not designed for civilian use.
On top of which are all the other things that would be needed to create content for Mass Effect, voice acting/dialog, animation, AI, architecture, history, culture of alien races (and maybe languages to), etc, etc (don't forget BioWare have about a 120 people working on ME at the moment, and when it's finally released it will have been in development for about 3 and halve years). 
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cjudge82
Joined: 31 Jul 2006 |
Posted: Thursday, 24 August 2006 07:53PM |
I would love to be able to mod Mass Effect. I was just reading on Gamespot yesterday about how the makers of Unreal have such a well developed community that they hold yearly reward ceremonies to honor the best user made content.
I would love to create new worlds or levels.
Oh well, a man can dream. 
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eisodos zao
Joined: 06 Jun 2006 |
Posted: Thursday, 24 August 2006 08:51PM |
Actually, Unreal Engine's toolset is one of, if not THE best tool kits when comes to modding. I mean, if you look at every Unreal Tournament released there have been tons of user made maps and mods that didn't require much or even any manipulation of game files, it could all be done within the toolset. They even had a contest for UT 2004 (the "Make Something Unreal" contest, whose winner got $1,000,000) to see who could make the best mod/total conversion for it.
That said, it might require extra licensing for the toolkit and even if Microsoft did get it they probably wouldn't include it anyways since it's not really something that can be done with an Xbox 360 controller (long live keyboard and mouse!!!) | |
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Psyanide
Game Owner
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 |
Posted: Thursday, 14 September 2006 09:15PM |
Quote: Posted 08/24/06 13:08:09 (GMT) by MusicDan Sorry to be mister negative but it wont happen with Mass Effect because BioWare don't own the game engine they/Microsoft have only licensed the technology from Epic (and an Unreal 3 development kit licence costs a lot of money), plus I imagine the development tools for it are not designed for civilian use. On top of which are all the other things that would be needed to create content for Mass Effect, voice acting/dialog, animation, AI, architecture, history, culture of alien races (and maybe languages to), etc, etc (don't forget BioWare have about a 120 people working on ME at the moment, and when it's finally released it will have been in development for about 3 and halve years).
Well, who knows? Maybe Epic will release an Unreal Toolkit for the Xbox 360, tied in with XNA. Just saying it's possible. Or, if anything, Bioware COULD ask Epic to make one themselves. Is it probable? No. Possible? Yes.
And about all the other stuff you'd need, yeah, it would take a lot of work for someone to make a really good mod. If you wanted to create, for instance, a total conversion mod (i.e. Counter-Strike), you'd need to create almost everything other than the game engine from scratch. However, PC modding communities have shown that not only can it be done, but it can be done very well. In the article on Gamespot where they announced it, they quoted someone as saying that they're hoping for games of the same quality as Halo 2 to be possible. Granted, it's not likely that we'll see many games made by small, low-budget developers creating something like Halo 2, but it will be possible with the toolkit. And, again, PC modding communities have proven that extremely good games can be created.
I'm highly doubtful we'll actually see a mod tool for any of the ME games on the Xbox 360, but I just wanted to see what people (and Bioware) thought about it.
SF
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RomeoReject
Game Owner
 Mass Effect
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 |
Posted: Thursday, 14 September 2006 09:29PM |
Quote: Posted 08/20/06 21:33:07 (GMT) by sportforredneck
My thoughts are that modding is okay, sure it continues the gameplay and could be fun for awhile, but to me it's pointless. Sure maybe I want to look like an alien or play a special campaign, but I myself won't have anything to do with modding as I don't enjoy it. I prefer to play games where the story contributes to something, but modding doesn't, they just make up their own stories and do whatever they feel like. That's just not my cup of tea, but whatever you're into, you're into.
But if modding really wants to do anything, I think rather than anything single player, they should just make a giant multiplayer mod for Mass Effect.
I have to disagree, modding is anything but pointless, in fact, it's the core that keeps most online games going (Halo 2 exempt). Not only that, friends with similar interests can make/tweak a game to their preference. Now, my example, however unlikely, is MASS EFFECT MULTIPLAYER. lol, but honestly, games like Oblivion and Mass Effect are just begging for multiplayer, and this way, BioWare wouldn't have to worry. However, as someone pointed out, it takes colossal effort and talent, and BioWare doesn't technically own any engines, they just use them, so tuning could be illegal on them...
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HunterXI
Game Owner
 SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 03 Sep 2006 |
Posted: Thursday, 14 September 2006 11:35PM |
Quote: Posted 09/14/06 21:29:36 (GMT) by sportforredneck
My thoughts are that modding is okay, sure it continues the gameplay and could be fun for awhile, but to me it's pointless. Sure maybe I want to look like an alien or play a special campaign, but I myself won't have anything to do with modding as I don't enjoy it. I prefer to play games where the story contributes to something, but modding doesn't, they just make up their own stories and do whatever they feel like. That's just not my cup of tea, but whatever you're into, you're into.
But if modding really wants to do anything, I think rather than anything single player, they should just make a giant multiplayer mod for Mass Effect.
Perhaps, but there's nothing wrong with trying to make something for everyone. Personally, I find that the whole "the core audience is the one that matters the most" argument true, but frustrating. Essentially, the whole argument is an excuse to shaft the hardcore/geeky audience. It doesn't harm anyone who wants nothing to do with it.
There's no doubt that ME will rock hard, user-created content or not, but that would really put the metaphorical icing on the cake.
It's definitely doable. It's just a question of whether or not Bioware wants to or not. Bioware?Edited By HunterXI on 09/14/06 23:38 | |
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sportforredneck
Game Owner
SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
From: Already Gone |
Posted: Friday, 15 September 2006 01:13AM |
Quote: Posted 09/14/06 21:29:36 (GMT) by RomeoReject Quote: Posted 08/20/06 21:33:07 (GMT) by sportforredneck
My thoughts are that modding is okay, sure it continues the gameplay and could be fun for awhile, but to me it's pointless. Sure maybe I want to look like an alien or play a special campaign, but I myself won't have anything to do with modding as I don't enjoy it. I prefer to play games where the story contributes to something, but modding doesn't, they just make up their own stories and do whatever they feel like. That's just not my cup of tea, but whatever you're into, you're into.
But if modding really wants to do anything, I think rather than anything single player, they should just make a giant multiplayer mod for Mass Effect.
I have to disagree, modding is anything but pointless, in fact, it's the core that keeps most online games going (Halo 2 exempt). Not only that, friends with similar interests can make/tweak a game to their preference. Now, my example, however unlikely, is MASS EFFECT MULTIPLAYER. lol, but honestly, games like Oblivion and Mass Effect are just begging for multiplayer, and this way, BioWare wouldn't have to worry. However, as someone pointed out, it takes colossal effort and talent, and BioWare doesn't technically own any engines, they just use them, so tuning could be illegal on them...
All I said was that to me it's pointless, I also said that if you enjoy it, then do it, I won't stop anyone. I was just giving what I think, as I believe that's what was asked of me. | |
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kd1987
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 |
Posted: Sunday, 17 September 2006 01:44AM |
Quote: Posted 08/21/06 10:49:01 (GMT) by Garen Arnulfsson
Plus it's going to cost $99 a year for membership to their developers club and the ability to distribute this stuff over Xbox Live, making this very a very costly option to make a mod for a game.
Or you could download the free beta off microsoft's website. though this option will probably be gone once they release the full version. | |
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Stromko
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Mass Effect
Joined: 20 Jun 2002 |
Posted: Saturday, 23 September 2006 03:54PM |
Mass Effect doesn't strike me as a game that 'screams for multiplayer', but ignoring the development and Q/A time that goes into adding multiplayer I'd say I would appreciate some sort of co-op mode. It would be nice, don't get me wrong, as an optional feature that doesn't interfere with Mass Effect's strength: a single-player RPG, first and foremost.
It seems to me that if you're really intent on a multiplayer, incredibly moddable game, then NeverWinter Nights 2 or would be the game to hitch your wagon to. As a follow-up to NWN, it emphasizes Multiplayer and Moddability.
That said, I'd agree that the moddability and multiplayer in NWN is =so= accessible that not a great deal has been done to change the basic formula. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that matches the reinventions that the last Unreal engine would see. Alien Infestation, various racing and sports games, AirBuccaneers, or even even that insipidly artsyfartsy mod with the butterflies and the bright shiny communist landscape certainly did create something that were almost unrecognizable compared to the original game.
Still, in the short term, I'm banking on NWN 2 for multiplayer and mods, and am unwilling to theorize if anything significant will be modded into Mass Effect or if multiplayer will be added by developers or fans. What I expect/hope for is a damned competent single-player RPG that evolves or revolutionizes various gameplay aspects.Edited By Stromko on 09/23/06 15:56 | |
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RomeoReject
Game Owner
Mass Effect
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 |
Posted: Sunday, 24 September 2006 07:32AM |
Quote: Posted 09/23/06 15:54:59 (GMT) by Stromko
Mass Effect doesn't strike me as a game that 'screams for multiplayer', but ignoring the development and Q/A time that goes into adding multiplayer I'd say I would appreciate some sort of co-op mode. It would be nice, don't get me wrong, as an optional feature that doesn't interfere with Mass Effect's strength: a single-player RPG, first and foremost.
It seems to me that if you're really intent on a multiplayer, incredibly moddable game, then NeverWinter Nights 2 or would be the game to hitch your wagon to. As a follow-up to NWN, it emphasizes Multiplayer and Moddability.
That said, I'd agree that the moddability and multiplayer in NWN is =so= accessible that not a great deal has been done to change the basic formula. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that matches the reinventions that the last Unreal engine would see. Alien Infestation, various racing and sports games, AirBuccaneers, or even even that insipidly artsyfartsy mod with the butterflies and the bright shiny communist landscape certainly did create something that were almost unrecognizable compared to the original game.
Still, in the short term, I'm banking on NWN 2 for multiplayer and mods, and am unwilling to theorize if anything significant will be modded into Mass Effect or if multiplayer will be added by developers or fans. What I expect/hope for is a damned competent single-player RPG that evolves or revolutionizes various gameplay aspects.
NWN's actually doesn't really do too much for me. It's notso much the RPG aspect that I think deserves multiplayer, but the landscapes, and the things they already have (vehicles, third-person combat, custom armors and weapons) that would work so excuisitely. Also, I wasn't necessarily referring to co-op. Now, the modding aspect or NWN is undeniable, and while Mass Effect might not be the ultimite game on my list for modding, even games that allow the user to create basic maps tend to last far longer than others. As for the keyboard and mouse, technically, the 360 already does support a keyboard and mouse, and the could make it so the kit only functions with a keyboard an mouse plugged in. And sorry sportforredneck, didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you.
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