MusicDan
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
From: LOC, The Garden Of England. |
 Posted: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 12:17PM |
The approximate number of NPC party members is now known (assuming this quote is right, could you please say if it's not Chris  )
Quote:
"Space is a lonely place, so it’s a good thing you’ll eventually control a three-man (woman? alien?) party built out of "dozens of potential squad mates", toggling between characters as you see fit. Bioware has been hush-hush about the races and details, but rest assured you won’t find any elven mages here."
And tracking eyeballs are in  , one question Chris... is this just during dialog... or throughout the game?
Quote:
"Matching this subtle innovation is a swarm of technological tweaks that gives the conversations a fantastic, cinematic feel. Every character in the game is fully-voiced, and like a film, the edits are quick and varied, flashing back and forth between the actors in the blink of an eye. And you’ll see those blinks in eerie detail thanks to the incredible, uh, eyeball technology. Say goodbye to dead, static eyes and hello to pupils that track movement and flutter realistically. It’s unnerving."
Now moving on a bit. Something I've been thinking about a lot lately is the the AI balance for NPC Party members... In Halo they said they kept the marines weak inorder to make the player/Spartarn look like a hero. But the lack of self preservation the marines showed always really bugged me (the character in Half Life 2* are the same *sigh* ) they always charge strait forward... across open ground. And then if I want to stand a chance of keeping them alive I end up chucking my self forward in mad dash of guns and grenades placing myself human sheild style between them and the enemy  .
It always destroys the imersion for me (I know "thank god" you can pause and give orders in ME but it would be really nice if some the following things could be implemented AI wise )in ME I want to get the feeling I'm part of a team and that the NPCs acting belivably is a big part of that .
So
1: They should move/look (in combat situations) head to gun... the NPC looks down the gun (held ready to fire) and moves it with their eyes as they look around.
2: They should always try and keep hard cover bettween them and the enemy (if you have a balistic to hit system that works on probability to hit and fire arcs I shouldn't think this would be too hard to do? The NPCs AI works out the different probability, firstly currently and then compares that to where it will be if it moves and also over a certain amount of time if the enemys resond to that and do X or Y... The AI then picks the best numbers ).
3: Never ever stick their heads out of cover at the same place twice  , pop out shoot then dive back in to cover, move along a bit and pop out somewhere else.
OK the floor is open what type of AI would you guys like to see in Mass Effect?
Whats most important?
What kind of things about other games AI dont you like?
What kinds of responses for NPCs in ME would you like to see to a certain type of situatiuon? 
(* Theres a bit in Nova Prospect where Alyx is running head long down a corridor, dispite me holding back in cover, right in to an ambush from two directions at once... an then what... does she retreat no, does she move/doge... no, she stands there and exchanges fire  ... good tactical AI cant be that hard can it???).
EDIT: I think I may have anserd my question about the eyes "Procedural skeletal controllers, for game features such as having an NPC's head and eyes track a player walking through the level." from Click Here , though if Chris could still confirm it it would be nice .
_________________
The Mass Effect FAQ 4.1 now has a great new look thanks to monoxism http://mefaq.sendu.me.uk/ .Edited By MusicDan on 11/14/06 12:32 |
|
Bazilx
Joined: 13 Nov 2006 |
Posted: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 12:34PM |
|
I just finished playing "Gears of war" and it had some rather nice combat system that used cover a lot and so did the AI. I'm more interested in the word "dozens" though... |
|
|
Psyro
Game Owner
 Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
From: Ireland |
Posted: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 01:31PM |
I think "dozens" sounds a little exaggerated.
_________________
Insults won't get you the information you want.
But threats might. |
|
|
MusicDan
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
From: LOC, The Garden Of England. |
Posted: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 02:08PM |
So would I... but both IGN and the listing for the guide say the same thing... and it says he talked to Ray??? Also they may introduce more NPC party members in ME:1 and then flesh them out over the next two games?
As a side point I wonder how long the writers have been on the project? I know Chris L'Etoile says a writer spends about two weeks on the dialog for each NPC party member... 4 writers plus their editor... they could turn out quite a lot of dialog/characters like that...
_________________
The Mass Effect FAQ 4.1 now has a great new look thanks to monoxism http://mefaq.sendu.me.uk/ . |
|
|
Williamxeses
Game Owner
 Jade Empire
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 18 Dec 2004 |
Posted: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 02:50PM |
I hate it when I play with NPCs in Halo and everybody dies but me. I dont want to be the chosen one who is always the only one left after people you have fought with have died by the hundreds. I want to be ONE IN THE BUNCH.
I would like to think that, in the game world, if I died, it wouldnt be a big deal to anyone but my teamates. I dont want the world to be depending on me until the very end. |
|
|
Psyro
Game Owner
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
From: Ireland |
Posted: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 04:18PM |
Maybe they played a little with the words "dozens of pontential squadmates". 
_________________
Insults won't get you the information you want.
But threats might.Edited By Psyro on 11/14/06 16:18 |
|
|
kregaaron
Joined: 06 Nov 2005 |
Posted: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 04:31PM |
|
Where are those quotes from? |
|
|
MusicDan
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
From: LOC, The Garden Of England. |
Posted: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 05:33PM |
Quote: Posted 11/14/06 16:31 (GMT) by kregaaron
Where are those quotes from?
From here Click Here
There is also a mention of it "Depending on which two squadmates of the potential dozens you've brought with you" at IGN Click Here .
And at Amazon "*Squad choices - Players can take two teammates with them into missions. With dozens of teammates to choose from Prima will chart all their abilities so players can pick the right man or woman for the job at hand."
On the AI subject some other things I'd like to see are party members not forming a triangle on the PC, and for that matter always standing so close together, I like the way you had formations you could chose from in Baldur's Gate . It makes sense to spread your team out a bit so they cant all be taken out by a grenade/rocket/machinegun. it would also be really nice if they each examined their surrounding terain and took up position in the nearest cover... behind a pillar or croaching down behind rocks, etc.
That reminds me of something else it always really anoyed me in Halo (or KOTOR) when marines/party member chucked grenads at you/as you were running forward  ... with friends like that... 
Something else I'd like to see is AI that can use the enviroment... for example marines always fire a roket or grenade at an enemy rather than at a wall/pillar/door way to cause splash damage, or use grenades to flush out enemys, block terain (wait for them to charge then chuck a grenade just in front of them), throw them first then charge in shooting... (for a reference of what I'm talkingabout look at the episode of Band Of Brother on D Day where the 101st are atacking the gun emplacments).
Also more animations around door ways instead of move into door way see enemy then fire, sidle up to door way reach arm (only) round and throw grenade in. I t would also be nice to be able to roll grenades across the floor (or spin the new disc grenade over wall, crates, etc) instead of one fixed throw/lob. Ok rant over .
_________________
The Mass Effect FAQ 4.1 now has a great new look thanks to monoxism http://mefaq.sendu.me.uk/ .Edited By MusicDan on 11/14/06 17:41 |
|
|
Grishmak Wolf King of the North
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
From: The Holy Gates of Heaven |
Posted: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 10:36PM |
Yes it can be annoying trying to save NPCs inside of video games when they are retarded. As an example away from the discussed halo, is Oblivion. At one point you have to bring the guard through an oblivion gate to make sure they know how to close the rest without you. I ended up having to tell them to hold ground as I went and cleared the entire gate because they would charge dead-on at a scamp when there's approximately five Clanfears that will attack if you get to close. So I spend twice the time going from the gate to the sigil stone, back down to the gate to get the gaurds (or the last place I left them), and then back again to the stone!
I want NPCs that know how to react to certain problems and do react in the way that is most logical and has the least amount of consequences.
_________________
"Your pain is my pain, your joy is my joy, your war is my war!"-Grishmak, King of the Wolf-folk |
|
|
Shrayev
Game Owner
 Mass Effect
Joined: 22 Oct 2006 |
Posted: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 11:00PM |
Quote: Posted 11/14/06 12:34 (GMT) by Bazilx
I just finished playing "Gears of war" and it had some rather nice combat system that used cover a lot and so did the AI. I'm more interested in the word "dozens" though...
That's a great point. The AI (both friendly and enemy) in 'Gears of War' really is great in regard to using cover effectively, and the like. I've never seen a system of the sort that's quite as realistic as the one in 'Gears of War'.
(...and this is unrelated, but I have to say that seeing my squadmates in 'Gears of War' use their chainsaw bayonets on aliens was just....friggin' awesome.)
I agree with what has been said regarding the NPC's in games like Halo as well...Charging enemies with no regard for your life isn't smart. It's stupid, and, as others have said, it ruins the immersion. |
|
|
G.A.Pster
Joined: 14 Nov 2005 |
Posted: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 11:32PM |
"
Now moving on a bit. Something I've been thinking about a lot lately is the the AI balance for NPC Party members... In Halo they said they kept the marines weak inorder to make the player/Spartarn look like a hero. But the lack of self preservation the marines showed always really bugged me (the character in Half Life 2* are the same *sigh* ) they always charge strait forward... across open ground. And then if I want to stand a chance of keeping them alive I end up chucking my self forward in mad dash of guns and grenades placing myself human sheild style between them and the enemy"
Yeah, I’ve noticed that, they’re really stupid, and I feel like I have to run up to the enemy and neutralize them before they kill my bumbling teammates.
And that’s not the way I’d like to play I’m more stealthy.
_________________
Expose the conspiracy capture the truth. |
|
|
SardaukarElite
Game Owner
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
From: Australia |
Posted: Wednesday, 15 November 2006 09:15AM |
Two points
1) One game which I thought had good AI was SW: Republic Commando, your squad have a very realistic way of moving from cover to cover, and never advanced much further than you did, so they wouldn't do that crazy rush thing. Although I suspect their movements were heavily scripted so it was more the illusion of good AI, an advantage of super linear levels.
2)I would like to see your party members have slightly diffrent AI, or 'personalities' in combat. For instance one party member may like to hang back and snipe while another may be prone to sucidal charges.
_________________
"Let's get one thing straight, sister: Errol Flynn pretends to be me, not the other way around." |
|
|
SaberGator
Joined: 27 Feb 2003 |
Posted: Wednesday, 15 November 2006 06:03PM |
Quote: Posted 11/15/06 09:15 (GMT) by SardaukarElite
2)I would like to see your party members have slightly diffrent AI, or 'personalities' in combat. For instance one party member may like to hang back and snipe while another may be prone to sucidal charges.
I could not agree more. But I would take this a step further. Just as enemies have different levels of AI settings. So too should your allies. They shouldn't rush forward without using cover and concealment and/or covering fire, but they also should not all be perfect soldiers. Trust me, I am a U.S. Army soldier branched in armor and I have seen all types. When I had to train with non-combat arms guys (and gals) it drove me crazy to watch some of them go against basic TTPs (Tactics, techniques, and procedures). Having different personalities and skill levels among your allies would bring a level of realism that would really enhance immersion.
_________________
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. For I am a JEDI and I will lay my vengeance upon thee.Edited By SaberGator on 11/15/06 18:05 |
|
|
MusicDan
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
From: LOC, The Garden Of England. |
Posted: Wednesday, 15 November 2006 09:29PM |
Quote: Posted 11/15/06 18:03 (GMT) by SaberGator Quote: Posted 11/15/06 09:15 (GMT) by SardaukarElite
2)I would like to see your party members have slightly diffrent AI, or 'personalities' in combat. For instance one party member may like to hang back and snipe while another may be prone to sucidal charges.
I could not agree more. But I would take this a step further. Just as enemies have different levels of AI settings. So too should your allies. They shouldn't rush forward without using cover and concealment and/or covering fire, but they also should not all be perfect soldiers. Trust me, I am a U.S. Army soldier branched in armor and I have seen all types. When I had to train with non-combat arms guys (and gals) it drove me crazy to watch some of them go against basic TTPs (Tactics, techniques, and procedures). Having different personalities and skill levels among your allies would bring a level of realism that would really enhance immersion.
Very good points ... I wouldn't expect mechanics or docters for example (using a star trek reference for once ) to be anywhere near as good in combat as say marines or SAS/Delta Force trained characters.
_________________
The Mass Effect FAQ 4.1 now has a great new look thanks to monoxism http://mefaq.sendu.me.uk/ . |
|
|
SardaukarElite
Game Owner
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
From: Australia |
Posted: Thursday, 16 November 2006 03:37AM |
Another thing I'd like to see from these digital actors is convincing combat conversation, calling targets and threats etc. As opposed to this strange silence you get in alot of games.
Also Republic Commando style insults could add somethng
"That's the core ship sir"
"Are you sure 40? there could be another around the courner"
Well you need to play it really
_________________
"I find your lack of faith disturbing" |
|
|
