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Author Thank you, Bob McCabe :)
malakai_gray
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Profile: malakai_grayJade Empire
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Joined: 18 Sep 2006
From: France
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 04:56AM
I sent out a PM a week ago, asking for a definitive answer on the question of a male/male romance option in Mass Effect.

M. Bob McCabe was kind enough to answer.

While it wasn't the answer I was hoping for, it is remarkable in its honesty and clarity Especially its clarity!


Quote: 
No offense taken. None at all.

To be honest, I am also quite passionate about gay rights. In fact, and maybe this is too much information, but my political candidate of preference for the 2008 US election is Mike Gravel.

I favor him for a great many reasons, but one in specific is that he is very much in favor of equality regardless of orientation. Gravel even went so far as to say that the whole "don't ask, don't tell" policy is 40 years outdated and seriously needs to go. I agree!

But more importantly for you, the gamer, BioWare is of the same position. As you referenced, BioWare's past games have never been shy to incorporate romances that some more conservative groups may feel are risquee. The idea of a male-male romance is not one that BioWare would actively avoid as a result of controversy or any other similar reasoning.

And that's something that has always made me proud of BioWare.

Of course... having said all that, BioWare's writers went into the story with goals in mind. That's how it works. And sometimes the way the overall story is written and the characters are developed, specific elements that we want to be in the story just don't make as much sense - not without making changes that affect everything else. You just don't want to force things.

Additionally, with this being our first game with a brand new engine, we really have to focus on keeping things as simple as possible. Create the core game play, make it as refined and fun as possible, and then slowly build up. You could liken it to building the foundation of a house (saying that makes me think of Sex Feet Under, haha). That's one of the reason we wanted to have three romance characters. Perhaps we could have made more, but the quality would have suffered and the characters would have become more thin. We also could have made less and made a very, very in-depth romance - but then you lose some of the options. :/

And if you think what I am saying sounds off, look to BioWare's past:

A good example of this is Neverwinter Nights. We were making a brand new game with brand new tools. Making things more difficult, we were shipping those tools to the public. On top of all that, we added a multi-player component and DM Tools.

Our scope had to be managed to make it all work. And, as you can see, that's what happened. Look at the difference between the current version of NWN and the original, shipped version; it took a lot of content/feature patches, as well as two expansion packs, to get the game where we wanted it to be. I think the current version is quite excellent and very worthy of a feeling of pride.

For the next ME development cycle (i.e. the sequel), there will be more time, more understanding of the engine, less restrictions in general, and so on. In other words, with the restrictions loosened, it's easier to imagine that we can write a more open story, that we can create more romance characters, and that we can spend more time fleshing out those stories.

But for this one? Well, I can't say with authority. I left the company in June and things could have theoretically changed. But I believe that a male-male romance wasn't intended as a part of the game. Again, that's not because of politics or external pressures but, as I have tried to explain, because of this specific story and because of our scope.

If this ends up being the case, then it is a little unfortunate. But a lot of great features and content were omitted from our goals so that we could make a game that could be shipped. Losing any of those features or content is unfortunate, but when you compare it against getting the game, I think you learn to forgive - especially when you consider that a lot of that content and those features will be looked at for incorporation in the sequels.

I hope this addresses your concerns. Feel free to write back if you'd like. You also mentioned that this question was raised on the forum. Feel free to share my answer on the board, if you feel it is appropriate.

_________________
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another." - Ambrose
Bierce, The Devil's Dictionarye


Thank you again, M. McCabe. You are sorely missed on these boards.
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SardaukarElite
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Joined: 02 Oct 2006
From: Australia
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 05:13AM
Nice work there, and thanks for answering Bob.

So that pretty much confirms three romance characters then? Unless there has been sufficient extra dialoguing since he left but this is unlikely.
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malakai_gray
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Joined: 18 Sep 2006
From: France
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 05:23AM
Yes, that is the way it looks...

I just wonder now, how the sequels will work, if they decide to include a gay romance in them

Which is a fairly large "if".

*shrugs*

I will still buy ME, but I am not anticipating it as much as I was. I have to decide now if I will play as femShep my first time through or just skip the romances all together...
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Joriarty
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Joined: 25 Apr 2007
From: New Zealand
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 05:30AM
I don't understand why everyone is getting so worked up about this. If they put something like a romance plot in and you don't like it, don't play it.

If you wanted them to include a gay romance plot and they didn't, so what? It's not a game-breaker. It probably means a little bit more content in another area, such as an extra side quest or two instead.
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Giant Man Crabs
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Profile: Giant Man CrabsSW: KotOR Xbox


Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 05:59AM
Hmm. So Kaiden isnt bisexual. Interesting.

Looks like its:

Males= Liara-Ashley- Tali(?)
Females=Kaiden-Liara-Garrus(?)
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malakai_gray
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Profile: malakai_grayJade Empire
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Joined: 18 Sep 2006
From: France
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 06:04AM
Quote: Posted 10/13/07 05:59 (GMT) by Giant Man Crabs

Hmm. So Kaiden isnt bisexual. Interesting.

Looks like its:

Males= Liara-Ashley- Tali(?)
Females=Kaiden-Liara-Garrus(?)

Actually, it looks like:

Males= Ashley
Females= Kaiden
Both= Liara

Only 3 romanceable NPCs

@Joriarty

Well, for some of us, the romances are important They are a big part of why we choose to play BW games as opposed to those of other companies.

I enjoy "chick" flicks, watch a soap opera, and have been known to read historical romances I really like romances

I think they make good stories. I was hoping that as in JE, I would be able to play myself in ME.

It isn't the case. That makes me feel disappointed. I will still buy the game.

I posted this mostly for the other gay men who read these boards, so they will know, finally, that we aren't being included in the romance options.

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Edited By malakai_gray on 10/13/07 06:12

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wepeel_
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Joined: 26 Sep 2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 06:06AM
Quote: Posted 10/13/07 05:30 (GMT) by Joriarty

I don't understand why everyone is getting so worked up about this. If they put something like a romance plot in and you don't like it, don't play it.

If you wanted them to include a gay romance plot and they didn't, so what? It's not a game-breaker. It probably means a little bit more content in another area, such as an extra side quest or two instead.

Sometimes you're simply hoping for stuff you know is unlikely to appear in the game, but that you would like for your character. Me, I've got long hair and would like to play as a guy with long hair in-game, but apparently all options are high-and-tight style military haircuts, since apparently no males in the military has hair longer than 9 millimeters or so. A bit annoying, but I agree, nothing to do about it.

As a side note there is a male/male romance option in Jade Empire, but maybe everyone knew that already.
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Giant Man Crabs
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Profile: Giant Man CrabsSW: KotOR Xbox


Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 06:07AM
Quote: Posted 10/13/07 06:04 (GMT) by malakai_gray

Quote: Posted 10/13/07 05:59 (GMT) by Giant Man Crabs

Hmm. So Kaiden isnt bisexual. Interesting.

Looks like its:

Males= Liara-Ashley- Tali(?)
Females=Kaiden-Liara-Garrus(?)

Actually, it looks like:

Males= Ashley
Females= Kaiden
Both= Liara

Only 3 romanceable NPCs

Its not 'only' 3, 3 romances is a pretty good number. Garrus and Tali -may- be possible, or at least flirting, so it could be higher.
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Maria Caliban
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Joined: 29 Jun 2002
From: In absentia
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 06:18AM
Quote: Posted 10/13/07 05:30 (GMT) by Joriarty
If you wanted them to include a gay romance plot and they didn't, so what? It's not a game-breaker. It probably means a little bit more content in another area, such as an extra side quest or two instead.

That's like saying "So they decided to only have male Shepard - so what?" "They decided Shepard can only be white - so what?"

Not everyone wants to play a straight, white male, that's what. Especially people who aren't straight, white, or male.

No one has said it's a game breaker. For those who were hoping that there would be a gay male romance, it's a disappointment. Why do they need to justify their disappointment to you?

Quote: Posted 10/13/07 05:59 (GMT) by Giant Man Crabs

Hmm. So Kaiden isnt bisexual. Interesting.

Looks like its:

Males= Liara-Ashley- Tali(?)
Females=Kaiden-Liara-Garrus(?)

That would be four.
Edit: Um... five.
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Edited By Maria Caliban on 10/13/07 06:21

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malakai_gray
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Profile: malakai_grayJade Empire
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Joined: 18 Sep 2006
From: France
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 06:19AM
Quote: Posted 10/13/07 06:07 (GMT) by Giant Man Crabs

Its not 'only' 3, 3 romances is a pretty good number. Garrus and Tali -may- be possible, or at least flirting, so it could be higher.

From M. McCabe's PM:
Quote: 
That's one of the reason we wanted to have three romance characters.

Three is a great number, if you happen to be one of those given a romance option.

If you haven't been included in those options, you might find the number isn't quite as high as you think

I hope that things have changed a great deal since June and that Tali is romanceable for you. I also hope that they put in a gay romance choice.

I am not holding my breath, however, and I recommend you don't hope too hard as well

PS: Thanks Maria! You said that much better than I did
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To those who understand, no explanation is necessary. To those who do not, no amount of explanation will ever suffice.

Edited By malakai_gray on 10/13/07 06:43

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Giant Man Crabs
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Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 06:46AM
I dont think it matters if your romance has been chosen or not. 3 characters with, hopefully, deep and different romance plots is a great number.
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yf2489
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
From: California
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 06:47AM
Im still going for Ashley 1st playthrough.
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Boiny Bunny
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From: Victoria, Australia
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 07:31AM
I've always found with Bioware games that whether I'm playing as a female or a male, I completely enjoy all aspects of all the romances. I know it kind of sucks to not be able to play as yourself, but as far as I can remember, Bioware have never really made a game where you could play as yourself.

Baldur's Gate and NWN, as well as Icewind Dale and all of those games hardly gave an opportunity to play as yourself, with serious issues regarding species choice and the portraits.

KOTOR had a meager character design system, and JE's was 4000 times worse. In both of these games, nearly all of the dialogue options were 'extreme', i.e. either good or bad, not much that a normal person would say in alot of circumstances.

I suppose ME is the most promising for letting you design 'you' because of the comprehensive character design system and it's set in our galaxy with Earth and all, but I thought it was lucky that Bioware included same-sex relationships in JE, and from what I heard they got a lot of negative feedback about it.

I think it's great that Bob is so passionate about it, and it sucks that you can't create the character you may exactly want, but Bioware have gone out of their way to create a fantastic game, and they never really said that the purpose of the game was to create you and have romance options that were like the options you'd have in real life. If they did, to cater to everybody there would have to be about 6.5 billion options on each dialogue wheel (one for every person on the planet).

It is dissapointing, but I'm sure you guys will hopefully at least be able to enjoy the other romances anyway, because they are undoubtedly well written.

When I'm playing an RPG I've never minded if I'm romancing a man or a woman, it's all about the character that I am in the game - not who I am in the real world. I guess in a way it's a bit like an escape, for me I don't really want to play a game just to be me, I want to be somebody else and say and do things that I normally wouldn't do! I want to try and get in the head of my psycho male character that I would never understand in the real world, and pretend to be obsessed with sex.
Maybe I've said too much..
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Rajban

Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 09:10AM
Was a good read, and a good answer. Was always worried they left that kind of stuff out cause of some political reason. Glad to hear that isn't the case.
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wepeel_
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
Posted: Saturday, 13 October 2007 09:11AM
I do it pretty much the other (maybe more common?) way around, trying to emulate myself and have my character do what I believe I would do myself if I were in her or his shoes. Whenever I want to play it differently, it sort of takes an active effort, and disrupts the flow of my game a bit.

But that's one of the cool things with games like that of course, a lot of people can customize it to their liking.
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