Quote: Posted 10/28/09 01:31 (GMT) by DeerSlayer084

I could actually sacrifice a million to save a thousand (yes that was in the right order). If my family and friends were in the 1000 and i didn't know the 1,000,000 i would do it in a heartbeat

Quote: Posted 10/28/09 01:33 (GMT) by Nemein

Quote: Posted 10/28/09 01:31 (GMT) by DeerSlayer084

I could actually sacrifice a million to save a thousand (yes that was in the right order). If my family and friends were in the 1000 and i didn't know the 1,000,000 i would do it in a heartbeat

Wow that is incredibly selfish.

Quote: Posted 10/28/09 06:15 (GMT) by MEaholic

well, id have no problem offing you to save a thousand. juuuuuuuust kidding.


its such a ridiculous question to be asking what i can only assume to be a bunch of 16 year old kids whose only real tough decisions in life are sloppy joe or pizza fries.

Quote: Posted 10/28/09 01:56 (GMT) by Nemein

So... the people that will be most willing to make sacrifices of the few for the gain of the many are those who don't have loved ones in the world? Does that make sense?

Edited By LuminousLupine on 11/08/09 01:51

Edited By Stounga on 11/14/09 22:15

Edited By Codiey on 11/15/09 13:30

Quote: Posted 11/15/09 23:03 (GMT) by Tortoise-Porpoise

Codiey:

"My browser changed "ridiculous" to "ridicules" on me. It's a little buggy."

Fair enough, but WHY in the name of God did you use it to demean us ANYWAY?

"The thing is. Everyone seems to say that I should have added more onto it."

Having looked through the past posts, I see some evidence of that, but it is far more of saying that they cannot judge an issue with just the numbers. Perhaps I might have misread, but I can understand.

"While as I said in my original post I was just directing the question Anderson asked Shepard (or what Shepard can say in response) to everyone else. A question from the game. So why should I add onto it when I was just asking the same question from the game to everyone else? It seemed like a simple thing in the game why not on here?
"

And I can UNDERSTAND that much, and that is why I did not ASK you to do so, though others might have: because it was in the game, nothing more, nothing less. But then why did you insist on going through with your last post and dictating what the terms of the issue were "supposed" to be, and (and THIS more than anything else was what got me) proceeded to insult those of us who actually think that the mere statistics tell very little in and of themselves?

The fact remains that you could have gotten away with almost anything had you not, for some foolish reason, tried to turn the screw on the last post for some reason I cannot fathom.

You are welcome to do so, but you are not welcome to cut out all discussion outside of those parameters, and you are CERTAINLY not welcome to be a d*ck about it.

"Again I should not have to say anything. I clearly mentioned in my post that it was said in the game."

And you don't, for the reasons I stated.

And you SHOULDN'T have, if that is the best you can come up with. Because I can tolerate the possibility that you either cannot or otherwise do not want to grasp the possibility that people may actually want to break out the history books or other examples to interpret that quote and talk about other angles about it, if you either do not have or do not care about being polite while trying to get the thread back the way you desire it to go, than you do not belong on these forums.

There was no justifiable reason to be as rude as you were, and if you lack the necessary wisdom to see that, I suggest you either acquire it or invest in a hermetically sealed bubble (h&ll, I'll even chip in!).

"-It's a simple question from the game. Nothing more."

A. I could choose to go off on a rant about the fact that it is indeed a very real dilemma that faces the military and other leaders, citing examples such as the Atomic Bombs, the infamous Bombing of the Reich, Poison gas, etc. But I will choose not to.

B. That wasn't the real issue, or even a substantial part of it: the reason is because you chose to hurl insults for no particular reason.

"Did Anderson ask Shepard to be more specific on who were the millions and who were the thousands?"

No. But he should have. And the fact that it was in the game does not change the fact that it is a very legitimate issue to consider when discussing this quote, PARTICULARLY if you know much about history. And it STILL does not excuse the fact that you tried to turn the topic around in a very ham-handed and rather insulting fashion.

"-Then do so....if you don't like the thread....then why are you here getting so offended by it?"

Oh, I LIKE the thread, and my comment precedes the issue. What I DON'T like are OPs who try to lord over the thread as though it were their own private fief, not merely stopping at trying to turn the discussion the way they desire (which is perfectly legitimate if done correctly), but who actually INSULT those discussing a valid point.

In other words, I do not like you or your behavior as of late. Savvy?

"- True. But the thing is I said it was something said in the game.If you said "Hey Shepard can say something like "sometimes a thousand must die in order to save a million" Do you think that way to?" I would say "Yes" or "no" and explain my reasons for it. Not rant at the person and say "well gee be more specific!"

I fail to see how that was the issue. The reason for bringing that up was the result of the discussion here that inverted the quote into "kill a million to save a thousand", and discussing if and when that was legitimate. It was not the direct quote, but it was the normal "cousin" of the concept espoused that usually gets brought up in discussions/debates here. Yes, the ME boards are rather philosophical and often exceed the boundaries of the original comment. If you get offended by that, than I suggest you go elsewhere.

And ESPECIALLY if you lack the tact necessary to turn the topic around in a more polite manner.

"Who are the millions and who are the thousands!? Why didn't you add that!?" because it was something that was said in the game. Which he stated. "

And we never SAID he did. That doesn't change the fact that it is a VERY important factor to consider. If you are going to plan a carpet bombing or other operation, it actually matters for a number of reasons (most importantly for ethical ones) what percentage of the estimated dead are the people you actually want killed but don't need to, what percentage of the people are people you NEED to kill, what percentage of the people are innocent civilians of no import, etc. etc. etc.

And the issue was not that Anderson didn't bring it up, it is that you are acting like you have one up the rear over people discussing the fact that he DIDN'T bring it up, and how it actually figures into things.

"- Perhaps. But the thing is we don't know each other in real life so it should not matter what someone on the internet thinks about you now should it?"

It depends on who it is, and in any event, I refuse to tolerate an insult upon my good name, be it my real name or a screen name. Had you acted that way in real life to my face, you would not have gotten away without getting an earful at best. Why should you get any different over the internet?

"-Nicer? So..killing each other for something such as asking a question or analyzing someone is justifiable?"

No, it is not. But killing them for insulting ones' integrity and for generally being rude may well be in some cases.

"Well if that's the case then come on everyone lets kill each other because someone who you don't know makes wild presumptions about you even though it really doesn't hurt you!!"

Hardly. On a public form, that would usually be libel or at the very least defamation of character. And it can readily harm someone.

"If that WAS still around there would not be very much of the human race left."

Hardly. It existed for centuries well until after the Industrial revolution, and by all accounts it did nothing more than a pinprick to the population growth (don't believe me? compare the numbers and the years dueling was abolished).

And besides, people can legally do that for far less noble reasons in more than a few corners of the world (or even worse), so why not? I've certainly seen worse ideas.

"- Okay and?"

...so you need to remove whatever is up your rear and calm the h*ll down. Particularly since this was no more "ridiculous" than business as usual in any philosophical or political debate you can think of. Even if you disapprove, there is nothing preventing you from doing so politely. So why did you see fit to insult us for bringing up a perfectly relevant point?

"I never said my name was on it. Or tried to be the boss of it. Now YOU are the one making the wild presumptions"

Your behavior here says otherwise. Particularly now. I can at least quote direct evidence to support my "wild" accusations and rebut yours. You can hardly do the same.

"-True but it doesn't take a genius to understand a question that the majority of you don't actually have to worry about in the future."

True, which is probably why I did. But id ALSO doesn't take a genius to figure out that debate on this subject will inevitably lead to talking about the other factors involved rather than mere numbers, as others showed. And it ALSO doesn't take a genius to try and steer the topic in the direction you want it to go without being insulting.

"It's a hypothetical question that I got from the game."

Which was answered and then expanded on by various responders, including myself. I see absolutely no reason why you would care in the least about the choice to expand upon it, particularly do not understand why you chose to get so offended over the issue.

"I should not have to add anything more because it was more of a quote then a question."

And, indeed, you didn't have to, misunderstandings regarding requests for more information and actual demands for it nonwithstanding.

"I took a quote from the game and turned it into a question.
Then people get angry and worried and start to rant at me. Even though it's something I
got from the game."

No, you took that quote from the game and turned it into a question and then posted it on a forum known for being rather philosophical, and then people visited that thread and discussed it civilly- perhaps ranting, but in an innocent way- while expounding upon it and debating its inverse. And then you got angry and tried to take your thread and go home while ranting at those innocent bystanders for asking questions that the game didn't.

It is bad enough to be a jerk, it is even worse to be one while painting yourself as the victim.

"If there were specifics in the game. I would of listed them. But their wasn't any. Again as I stated in my Original Post."

And pray tell me WHO took offense to that fact? They discussed it, filling in their own varying specifics and argue whether it would be justified under such and such conditions. And then you tried to forcefully insert "THE" conditions you wanted to, in spite of the fact that your OP left an open door for almost anyone to talk about the issue, using your two examples as a jump-off point.

Again, if you had not chosen to be so insulting and ham-handed when you tried to retake "your" thread, this issue would never have come up.

"-Rofl and who says I'm having a fit?"

I do. And I am willing to bet that most who saw the way you rudely and abrasively interrupted the thread on your post before last would as well.

"I'm just getting bored of the people getting angry to me over something that was in the game."

You must get bored VERY quickly, given the fact that that hasn't happened yet as far as I have seen. As for people getting angry at you because you chose to rudely butt your head in... well, that's another matter.

"Yes I turned what someone said in the game into a question but it was just that. A simple question. Where do you figure I was having a fit?"

From a few posts back when you stopped leaving it at "just that" and forcefully and rudely attempted to put your foot down and force the discussion to go the way YOU wanted it to.

"I was saying how ridiculous it was at how most of you are reacting."

Hardly. I have seen very little save the most polite and scholarly reactions from those whom you challenged, indeed far more polite and scholarly than your insults deserve.

"In other words how easy you all are getting offended. Like you are getting right now."

When somebody- whether on the internet or directly to one's face- insults them unjustly for merely discussing an issue, I think it is entirely rational to be offended. Particularly seeing as how you are objectively getting far more offended for a far more insignificant matter.

"Saying the forums are for me XD."

And where did anyone say that?

"Making a judgment on someones right to be on the forums?"

Firstly, nobody has a RIGHT to be on the forums. As a private entity, it is a PRIVILEGE to be on these forums, one that is not mine to decide. But I think it is entirely within MY rights and privilege to formulate an opinion on somebody's use of the forums and whether they deserve to be on it or not.

"As if you make that decision?"

Obviously not. Though if you keep it up, those who actually DO may decide to do what I cannot.

"Gee....now I wonder who said something similar to me?(in case you don't understand I am calling you a hypocrite)"

Call me whatever you want. It does not make it true, and it does not change the considerable projection involved in it (let's see here: defending the fact that you only posted the question and two examples, nothing more, right before you try and justify your insulting of people discussing issues related to yours. Hypocrite? Look in the mirror).

"- Take your own advice."

I have. Because where, pray tell, have I acted like you simply because the discussion was going off into the factors involved? And certainly where I chose to blow a gasket over it rather than subtly and politely tying to turn it back in the direction I desired?

"Getting angry at someone over the forums isn't exactly mature now is it?"

The forums are just another medium of communication. And if somebody walked up to you in the marketplace or in a debate hall and started insulting and slandering you and your discussion, are you supposed to suck it up?

"You don't have to get out. That's your right."

I do. Have you seen my relatively low post count? That's because I actually have a life.

"Nor do you have to grow up."

But I have. Perhaps not perfectly, but that is more than I can say for you.

"But you won't get far in life if you don't start growing up."

So says the fool who gets insulting over the discussion venturing out beyond his OP. Here's a hint: being hypocritical rarely makes one look mature or improves the quality of one's arguments.

"Something you don't achieve when you get easily offended by someone on the internet."

Remind me again who started jumping down people's throats and insulting them merely because they didn't like the way the discussion was going? And as for my being "easily offended", is it that outrageous to go in for a polite debate only to be confronted by a boor whose foolish and insulting comments towards oneself and towards one's legitimate discussion eventually leads one to defend one's reputation and integrity?

"So take it easy,grow up"

Good advice that I have already followed. You should do the same.

"and don't get so insulted over things people say on the forums."

When people say things I would find offensive if said to my face, don't expect me to stand for it. Particularly since you have been shown to have absolutely no basis to lecture from: the fact remains that you intervened with unnecessary rudeness in a debate over a very trifling and legitimate matter, and when you were confronted on it, you tried to play the victim, twisted yourself in logical knots, and generally continued blaming everyone but yourself while trying to isolate yourself behind a double standard. And for that, you only deserve condemnation.

Say what you will, but at least I got angry over somebody insulting me and attempting to invalidate the legitimate points I was making. You got angry because people actually like expanding on topics.

Any objective judge would clearly see how you are in the wrong.

So take a chill pill, grow the h*ll up, stop being a hypocrite, and above all don't get upset about the normal course of philosophical debate.

Edited By Codiey on 11/16/09 00:00